Bible Forum

A Forum for members to discuss various issues relating to varied meanings of the biblical words

Wednesday, August 10, 2005

Did Bible Scholarship Contribute?

Keith, I wasn't sure if the "Bible scholar" argument has played much of a role at all, especially at the popular level. I'm not sure if WTS has any affect at all on most holiness grass roots people.

But one line in your post did catch my eye: "I wonder if boomer-scholars gleefully tossed entire sanctification overboard..." It reminded me of something Chris Bounds has said about WTS in terms of entire sanctification, namely, that they've spent the last thirty years mainly bashing the idea of entire sanctification rather than re-presenting it or translating it. I know that Bob Lyon's late 80's paper on Acts had a big impact on me at Asbury--the very one Dieter attributes a good deal of damage to the preaching of the doctrine. But I suspect it had more impact on the Nazarenes than on many Wesleyans.

I'm not sure if we could reel Acts back into service if we wanted to (although I hear Earl Wilson rallied the troops at the Indiana South Camp Meeting). But I think we can make an incredibly strong case for victory over sin from the New Testament that goes against the current Zeitgeist. And I think we can make an experiential argument for a moment of full surrender/burial of self subsequent to conversion for most. And I think it only follows logically that you can't have the maximal power of God in your life unless that has taken place.

To me, that adds up to an argument for a decisive moment of entire sanctification. What it lacks is status limited to a "second" (since it could be third, fourth, or first) and in theory it could happen in more of a process than a moment.

3 Comments:

At 12:46 PM, Blogger Aaron said...

I think the words we used to describe turned off everyone else. Words like “entire” “complete” “full” and “perfect” have a finality to them that people aren’t comfortable with and because those words then became entangled with so many erroneous concepts (women in long skirts with “bunned” up hair) that anytime someone heard them they immediately shut down.

 
At 1:02 PM, Blogger Ken Schenck said...

That seems to fit with at least a couple of the points I mentioned before: 1) the close association with a particular look (I got that one from Drury, to be honest) and 3) the spirit of the age really not liking the idea of perfection, entirety in these kinds of matters.

 
At 3:12 PM, Blogger Keith Drury said...

KEN SAID>>>I think we can make an incredibly strong case for victory over sin from the New Testament that goes against the current Zeitgeist. And I think we can make an experiential argument for a moment of full surrender/burial of self subsequent to conversion for most. And I think it only follows logically that you can't have the maximal power of God in your life unless that has taken place.

DRURY REPLY>>>>> You have stated here what could become the re-minting of the doctrine for today...but what you have stated will be treated as "strange doctrine" by most today...despite your apt tying of all this to Scripture. Face it--the present church believes "Christians sin fairly regularly" and saying anything else appears whacky to them... even if you can show them so from the plain teaching of Scripture (which I have heard you do) they will reject it... which all goes back to my former point that showing something from Scripture does not convince anyone of it--the church is convinced by other means then goes to Scripture to find a proof text to support an already-chosen position.

 

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